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Old 06-29-2017, 10:31 AM
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Can brake pads age or "heat cycle" out?

I finally got my Civic back up and running and I'm sorting through the various issues with one of them being poor braking performance. I switched to a Wilwood manual pedal assembly and I have 6 piston calipers. I started with a 1" MC but it didn't feel like there wasn't enough pad pressure so I reduced it to a 3/4" MC and the braking greatly improved but it's still pretty poor even if I stand on the pedal to the point either my seat or the pedal assembly is going to bend. I have Hawk DTC70 pads and the only situation I can lock up the fronts is if I drive through the gravel.

I actually bed in the pads on my Accord for a couple sessions on track and they were working good on that car and then put them on my Civic, BUT... that was like 3 years ago and they have been sitting since then. I ran the car at East in June and I was able to stop the car for each turn but barely. I also got the pads super hot to the point I thought they might catch on fire when coming into the pits. Anyone know if the pads simply went bad due to age?
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:18 AM
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Oh and the brake lines are all brand new, new fluid and I also replaced all the seals and pistons in the calipers (thinking the calipers might have been the issue) but the problem braking isn't any better.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:30 PM
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Dave "turtlespeed" Schutt Dave "turtlespeed" Schutt is offline
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no they cant. sounds like you need time reseating those pads to that car.
you did say your fluid is new right?
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:03 PM
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Tage, if you are getting the pads hot, then you are converting the kinetic energy of your car into thermal energy. That suggests that your pads are doing what they are supposed to.

How are you removing that heat from the rotor? Did you change your brake cooling setup?
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:38 PM
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My Wilwoods were kind of doing this ( but not to the extreme), over heated and it still felt like poor performance.. I think it was due to brake drag leading to them getting too hot almost immediately- but you prob have dust boots and did say they were rebuilt- anyhoos that what mine was.

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Old 07-14-2017, 05:51 PM
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I actually bed in the pads on my Accord for a couple sessions on track and they were working good on that car and then put them on my Civic,
I'm confused. You are supposed to bed-in brake pads with their intended rotors. Are you saying that you take both the brake pads and rotors, put them on your Accord, do the bed-in process, then let cool, and take both the brake pads and rotors off the Accord and put them on the Civic?
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:26 PM
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I only bed in the pads. Part of the bedding process is releasing the gases after you get them hot and the other part is material transfer to the rotors. Granted I was only doing half of the process but the rotors on both my Civic and Accord was DTC70 pads. In regards to brake ducts, I don't have any yet which I get I will have poor performance after things get hot but I would still expect to have good brakes after they get warm and before they are beyond 1200+ degrees but I never once ever got any bite from the brakes.

I am now wondering if perhaps, the film transfer had not happened yet to get good braking bite and then the pistons were not retracting back into the calipers causing excessive brake drag and quickly overheating the system. When I had motor issues, the car was extremely hard to push. I did find that one of the rear calipers was dragging excessively from a bent bracket. That was fixed but maybe the front calipers were causing drag too. I also know that when pads get overheated they do get glazed and take a while for their "bite" to come back (if at all). Maybe I will belt sand off the glaze to the pads and try driving around the block to get some film transferred and see if the brakes come back to life.

Thx for the discussion and generating some ideas to try!
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:37 PM
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At the last event I ran all brand new brakes on mine (6 piston 380mm setup up from a 4 piston 355), and had some brand new rotors and pads (from G-loc, first time I had tried them).

I took it easy in the first session, but after a couple laps they were effective (however felt terrible, between booster mismatch and not much transfer/bed-in), but by the end of the session they were definitely fully bedded. That experience is similar to many other cars I've run (or worked on, we switched pads/rotors/brands all the time in PWC and usually would be in business quickly)

Have you tried running some temp paint/decals on the calipers and rotors to get an idea of the working temperatures? 70's tend to like it warm, and getting some data would help determine if you are getting the pad up to temp and at least rule that out. Otherwise I'd switch pad compounds to rule that factor out.
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Old 07-20-2017, 08:29 AM
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I haven't tried any brake paint to get temps but I used to run DTC60s and they were ok for a couple laps with lots of bite initially but quickly faded and were crap after 3 laps. The DTC70s were slightly better but I still overheat them based on visual inspection post event. I haven't reinstalled my brake ducts while I know the car needs but it is just strange that there is never any bite from this setup. Not sure if it's old/glazed pads, lack of bedding/transfer or improperly sized Braking system. Keep in mind the car is the same as is the calipers, but this is now a manual pedal setup and non booster.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:50 PM
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Time to double-down on "Leg Day" at the gym? Surprised regarding DTC70 "no bite" comment. Something is wrong. Should also match rotor sets to pads--bed in the pads to the rotors you'll run on the track. In for future updates.
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